# Ben Silbermann at Startup School SV 2016 > `[00:00:07]` Good morning. Nice to see everyone here. `[00:00:07]` 早上好。很高兴见到这里的每一个人。 > `[00:00:12]` My name is Ali Rughani. I\'m a partner at Y Combinator. I run our late stage fund. It\'s called The Combinator Continuity fund and I am I couldn\'t be happier to be here today to conduct a fireside chat with Ben Silbermann. `[00:00:12]` 我叫阿里·鲁加尼。我是 Y Combinator 的合伙人。我管理着我们的后期基金。它被称为 Combinator 连续性基金，我非常高兴今天能在这里和 Ben Silbermann 进行一次炉边聊天。 > `[00:00:31]` Who is you guys all probably know is the co-founder and CEO of Pinterest. `[00:00:31]` 你们都知道谁是 Pinterest 的联合创始人和首席执行官。 > `[00:00:39]` Ben has a fascinating background and a set of diverse experiences of entrepreneurship. `[00:00:39]` 本有着迷人的创业背景和丰富的创业经验。 > `[00:00:46]` So we\'re thrilled to have him here. `[00:00:46]` 所以我们很高兴有他在这里。 > `[00:00:48]` And I want to welcome him here today. `[00:00:48]` 今天我想欢迎他来这里。 > `[00:01:02]` Ben thank you for coming. Thanks for having me. Well there are a lot of bright a lot of people in this very bright light smokes. `[00:01:02]` 本，谢谢你的光临。谢谢你邀请我。嗯，有很多明亮的人，很多人在这个非常明亮的灯光下吸烟。 > `[00:01:10]` Ben let me just start first by asking you to tell us a little bit about Ben before Pinterest sort of what you were interested in growing up through college and what you graduated college and then went and did. How that kind of all led to today. `[00:01:10]` 本，让我先让你在 Pinterest 之前告诉我们一些关于 Ben 的事情，比如你在大学期间对成长感兴趣，以及你大学毕业后做了些什么。这一切都导致了今天。 > `[00:01:25]` Sure. Well I grew up in Iowa I grew up outside its Moine and a lot of a lot of time when I grew up I I thought I was going to be a doctor. Both my parents are doctors. Both my sisters are doctors and so it didn\'t even feel like really a choice. But as a kid I loved all kinds of things. You know I love nature. I loved I love stories I love. I love fiction and I love movies. And then when I went to school I went to I went to Yale and I was premed but I didn\'t really have a specific plan other than maybe I should be a doctor. So that was sort of my my first chapter. And then somewhere along along that line I thought geez I don\'t know if medicine is for me. And I feel like medicine is one of those professions where if you think that you actually know that. And so I just you know I started I start taking other classes I ended up I ended up getting a major in Political Science. But the other thing that happened was college was the first time that I had like my own laptop with high speed internet which makes me sound super old. Things change fast. But I remember actually that being a really transformative experience just be able to get on get access to all kinds of information I just became it sounds really corny I just kind of fell in love with the internet. I loved the idea that everyone could access the same information no matter where you were in the world. And I would always play these kind of what if games like whenever I saw a problem I mean like like you know what if what if the Internet could help solve this problem. So I think that\'s that\'s how I really get excited about technology. So you didn\'t drop out. `[00:01:25]` 当然。嗯，我是在爱荷华州长大的，我是在爱荷华州郊外长大的。很多时候，当我长大的时候，我以为我会成为一名医生。我父母都是医生。我的两个姐妹都是医生，所以我觉得这不是一个真正的选择。但当我还是个孩子的时候，我喜欢各种各样的东西。你知道我爱大自然。我爱的故事。我喜欢小说也喜欢电影。然后当我去学校的时候，我去了耶鲁，我是预科生，但是除了也许我应该成为一名医生之外，我并没有具体的计划。这是我的第一章。然后沿着这条线，我想天哪，我不知道药是否适合我。我觉得医学是其中一个专业，如果你认为你真的知道这一点的话。所以我，你知道，我开始参加其他的课程，我最终获得了政治学的专业。但发生的另一件事是大学，那是我第一次像我自己的笔记本电脑一样高速上网，这让我听起来超级老了。事情变化很快。但我记得，事实上，作为一种变革性的体验，只要能够接触到各种各样的信息，我就变成了-听起来真的很老套，我只是有点爱上了互联网。我喜欢这样的想法：无论你身在何处，每个人都可以获取相同的信息。我总是玩这种游戏，比如每当我看到一个问题，我的意思是，就像你知道，如果互联网可以帮助解决这个问题。所以我想这就是我对科技真正感到兴奋的原因。所以你没有辍学。 > `[00:03:03]` You got your degree. You graduated and then you took. You didn\'t start a company right away. Is that right. `[00:03:03]` 你拿到学位了。你毕业了然后你选了。你没有马上成立公司，对吗？ > `[00:03:08]` No. You know I decided not to be a doctor. My parents were like Okay hope better figure you got something to do to make money. And I took a job at a consulting firm. And I took that job mainly because they they offered it to me. And I went to WashingtonD.C. and I worked in consulting and worked inI.T. group. And then along the way I was kind of working with friends and building these toys on the Internet. And I say toys because they weren\'t they weren\'t really intended to be these serious businesses or anything I was just really curious about what we could do. So I\'m one of the first things that I had started making in college. It was it was a tool that that let you try on glasses online because you know my parents I spent a lot of time there opthamologist and they had an optical shop attached and you know people were there because they couldn\'t see and so I would I would watch all these people go in and try all these Blancs glasses and then they try to look in the mirror but they couldn\'t see them. They\'d ask how do these look. And I was thinking oh you know maybe maybe we could build software to help people see that maybe they could do it online. So instead of having like 12 pairs of glasses that were available you could have the whole access that was an example of kind of one of these toys. I worked with a friend of mine named Altay and we made a tool to help his band promote themselves all over the country all on the side while you had a day job. All projects. Yeah. So yeah that\'s how he kind of got started more and more playing with things than just focusing on building a serious company. `[00:03:08]` 不。你知道我决定不当医生了。我的父母就像好的，希望你能做点什么来赚钱。我在一家咨询公司找了份工作。我接受那份工作主要是因为他们提供给我。我去了华盛顿特区，我在咨询公司工作，在 I.T.小组工作。一路走来，我和朋友们一起工作，在网上制作这些玩具。我之所以说玩具，是因为它们并不是真正想成为这些严肃的企业或任何事情，我只是好奇我们能做些什么。所以我是我在大学开始做的第一件事之一。这是一种可以让你在网上试用眼镜的工具，因为你知道我的父母，我在那里花了很多时间在那里，他们在那里开设了一家光学商店，你知道人们在那里是因为他们看不见，所以我会看着所有这些人走进去，试着戴上这些布兰克的眼镜，然后他们试着照镜子，但他们看不见他们。他们会问这些看起来怎么样。我在想，哦，你知道，也许我们可以建立软件来帮助人们看到，也许他们可以在网上做。因此，与其拥有大约 12 副可用的眼镜，你还可以拥有整个通道，这就是其中一种玩具的例子。我和我的一个朋友 Altay 一起工作，我们制作了一个工具来帮助他的乐队在全国各地推广自己，而你只有一天的工作。所有项目。嗯所以是的，这就是他开始越来越多地玩东西的方式，而不仅仅是专注于建立一家严肃的公司。 > `[00:04:40]` Now you\'re clearly creative you clearly had a sense of like the Internet could be something interesting that solves his problems but you weren\'t technical so how did you like overcome that in the early days in terms of actually be able to kind of create the things you wanted to create. `[00:04:40]` 现在你很有创造力，你显然有一种感觉，就像互联网可能是一种有趣的东西，可以解决他的问题，但你并不是技术上的，所以你喜欢怎样在早期克服它，因为你实际上能够创造出你想要创造的东西。 > `[00:04:53]` Yeah well you know how it always I would always start off thinking about an idea and I had some friends that were technical and then none of us were super technical so we\'d always just sort of chip in and learn what we needed to do to get the next part. So learning about things like product design. Would you like simple like front end coding and just you end up learning like little bits at a time. And for me at least it\'s a lot easier to learn things when there\'s something that you want to build than doing it in a very abstract kind of classroom way. `[00:04:53]` 是的，你知道，我总是从一开始就想到一个想法，我有一些技术上的朋友，然后我们中没有一个人是超级技术型的，所以我们总是切入其中，学习我们需要做些什么才能得到下一部分。所以学习产品设计之类的东西。你会喜欢简单的像前端编码，而你只是结束学习像小比特在一次。至少对我来说，当有你想要建立的东西时，学东西比用一种非常抽象的课堂方式学习要容易得多。 > `[00:05:20]` Got it. When did you or how did you decide OK I\'m going to now leave my job and jump out and commit fully to starting a company. `[00:05:20]` 明白了。你是什么时候决定的，或者你是怎么决定的？我现在要离开我的工作，跳出工作，完全致力于创办一家公司。 > `[00:05:33]` You know it is a while. So when I was inD.C. I was like always reading these blogs. I was like I\'m here typing in Tech Crunch. I was like whoa like something is going on on the Internet. And I just really wanted to be part of it so I didn\'t feel like I could start a company. But I thought maybe a good half step would be to try to work at a company that I really respect. And so I really wanted to work at Google. So I moved out to California and I got a job of Google. And the only job I was qualified for at the time was online sales and operations which was kind of like customer support. And I worked there for about a year and a half and all the while I\'m like oh Chinese civil projects on the side and it was actually my my girlfriend at the time who is now my wife. She was one of a kind of gave me the kick in the pants you know like normal I was like oh wouldn\'t it be cool I should build this. Like here\'s what it\'s going to look like. Here\'s the early prototype. She\'s like You know Ben maybe you should either do it or stop talking about it. `[00:05:33]` 你知道这是一段时间。所以当我在华盛顿的时候，我就好像一直在读这些博客。我就像在这里打字一样。我就像互联网上发生了什么。我真的很想成为它的一部分，所以我不觉得我能创办一家公司。但我想，也许一个很好的一半是尝试在一家我真正尊重的公司工作。所以我真的很想在谷歌工作。所以我搬到加利福尼亚去找了一份谷歌的工作。当时我唯一能胜任的工作是在线销售和运营，这有点像客户支持。我在那里工作了大约一年半，一直以来，我就像中国的土建项目一样，实际上是我当时的女友，现在是我的妻子。她是那种给我踢裤子的人之一，你知道，我就像正常人一样，哦，不是很酷，我应该做这个。就像这个样子。这是早期的原型。她就像你知道的，本，也许你要么去做，要么停止谈论。 > `[00:06:29]` That turned out to be really good advice. `[00:06:29]` 这是非常好的建议。 > `[00:06:32]` So you left Google. What was the first thing you tried to build. `[00:06:32]` 所以你离开了谷歌。你要做的第一件事是什么。 > `[00:06:36]` Well immediately when I left I hooked up with some friends of mine and I was still interested in medicine latent interest in medicine so we wanted to build a tool that would help people gather your medical records across your family you could kind of build a family tree and everyone could update it. And I started with these friends that were kind of on a break period before they got theirPh.D. but in a few months then they got therapy you know like hey you know like we aPh.D. we\'re going to be professors and you\'re sort of on your own. And then you know I was kind of like in the void. It wasn\'t the team sort of fell apart. Yeah. Like one guy went on to become an extraordinarily successful researcher out of them. Another guy went to medical school. And so was sort of wandering around it wasn\'t even the trough of despair. It\'s like not doing not doing that much. But I hooked up with a friend of mine from college and at that time the iPhone had just recently come out and actually I remember so vividly like watching that keynote on this laptop and be like holy holy cow this change everything. They hooked up with a friend to build products for the iPhone. And one of those products our idea was like why don\'t we take all those catalogs in your mailbox and put them on the phone because catalogs suck and phones are great but you still want to shop. `[00:06:36]` 当我离开的时候，我和我的一些朋友勾搭在一起，我仍然对医学有兴趣，所以我们想要建立一个工具，帮助人们收集你家人的医疗记录，你可以建立一个家谱，每个人都可以更新它。我从这些朋友开始，他们在获得博士学位之前有一段休息时间，但过了几个月，他们就接受了治疗，你知道，就像我们是博士一样，我们将成为教授，而你则是一个人。然后你知道我有点像在虚空中。这支队伍不是分崩离析的。嗯就像一个人后来成为了一个非常成功的研究人员。另一个人上了医学院。四处游荡，这甚至不是绝望的低谷。就像没做那么多。但是我和我大学里的一个朋友勾搭上了，那时 iPhone 刚刚问世，实际上我记得非常生动，就像在这台笔记本电脑上看主题演讲一样，就像天啊，这一切都改变了。他们和一位朋友勾搭在一起，为 iPhone 制造产品。我们的想法之一就是，为什么我们不把所有的目录放在你的邮箱里，放在电话上，因为目录很烂，手机很棒，但你还是想购物。 > `[00:07:48]` And that was our first our first idea that we really formed into that company and that was yeah the product was called toat. And we knew that to build that we would have to raise a little bit of money. `[00:07:48]` 这是我们的第一个想法，那就是我们真正成立了那家公司，是的，我们的产品叫做 toat。我们知道，要建立这样的基础，我们必须筹集一点资金。 > `[00:07:59]` We set out to raise money on that premise and that was the first time you\'d raise money for two. `[00:07:59]` 我们开始在这个前提下筹集资金，这是你第一次为两个人筹集资金。 > `[00:08:05]` It was the first time that I\'d been in charge of raising the money and done it really formally and it was a total shit show to be honest. You know the other part of this was this is this is 2008. So the economy has collapsed and we would just like go to these meetings and and these folks would just be like Why are you even here. `[00:08:05]` 这是我第一次负责筹集资金，而且是正式的，老实说，这是一场彻头彻尾的狗屁表演。你知道，这是 2008 年。所以经济崩溃了，我们只想去参加这些会议，这些人就像你为什么会在这里一样。 > `[00:08:25]` And I\'m like I don\'t know you took the meeting like I was like Why am I here. Laughter. `[00:08:25]` 我不知道你参加了会议，就像我为什么在这里一样。笑声。 > `[00:08:32]` But it was really it was a really tough time and so you know we went through the full like West Coast investors. We went to the east coast struck out on the West Coast struck out on the west coast not for lack of effort. `[00:08:32]` 但是这真的是一个非常艰难的时期，所以你知道我们经历了像西海岸的投资者一样的过程。我们去了东海岸，在西海岸，不是因为缺乏努力。 > `[00:08:41]` I `[00:08:41]` i > `[00:08:41]` think that everyone who could have gotten call got a call we would cold call people out of alumni directories like whether we went to the school or not like Slick\'s like a wealthy a wealthy individual. `[00:08:41]` 认为每个本来可以接到电话的人都会打电话给校友名单上的人，比如我们是否去过学校，就像斯利克像个有钱人一样。 > `[00:08:54]` Laughter. `[00:08:54]` 笑声。 > `[00:08:55]` And we ended up doing something quite desperate which is I ended up finding all the college business plan competitions that had loosely written rules about attendance in that school. `[00:08:55]` 我们最后做了一件非常绝望的事情，那就是我最终发现了所有的大学商业计划赛，这些竞赛的规则都很松散，都是关于在那所学校上学的。 > `[00:09:06]` And I entered one and we got second place in the prize for second place was a meeting with a venture capitalist who was an alumni of the school and they were able to give us our first couple hundred thousand dollars which to me felt like all the money in the world. I couldn\'t believe it. It was like I was looking at the bank account. And that\'s how we got it started. `[00:09:06]` 我进入了第一名，我们获得了第二名，第二名是一位风险投资家，他是学校的校友，他们给了我们最初的几十万美元，我觉得这是世界上所有的钱。我真不敢相信。就像我在看银行账户。我们就是这样开始的。 > `[00:09:26]` Amazing. And there were two of you at the time. Yep. So what do you do with money. Did you go out and hire some people. We did. We paid the awesome engineers they were helping us out. `[00:09:26]` 令人惊叹。当时你们有两个人。是的。那你拿钱做什么。你是不是出去雇了一些人。我们做了。我们雇了他们帮助我们的优秀工程师。 > `[00:09:36]` And we set out to build this. This iPhone app. But at the time iPhone development was really slow. Not only was it slow to develop it was also slow to get approved. And so even after we built this app and we were we were ready I thought I was going to be like in the movie. Like you push like release and then like all these things we couldn\'t even get the thing approved. And so at the same time you know I met another friend in New York named Evan and we had this other idea that was again it was kind of like one of these toys. `[00:09:36]` 我们开始建造这个。这个 iPhone 应用程序。但当时 iPhone 的发展非常缓慢。这不仅是缓慢的发展，它也是缓慢的获得批准。因此，即使在我们构建了这个应用程序之后，我们已经准备好了，我想我会像在电影里一样。就像你推动发布，然后就像所有这些事情一样，我们甚至无法获得批准。所以，同时，你知道我在纽约遇到了另一个叫埃文的朋友，我们又有了另一个想法，那就是，它有点像这些玩具中的一个。 > `[00:10:04]` Looking back there were elements of all these other projects we\'d worked on but it was this toy in the toy was like you know what if there was a tool to let you collect things online. You had some of these elements of this catalog on the phone. I mean had some things that I just loved as a kid I was a big collector as a kid. Evan was too. And we started to build build this toy. And ironically like that toy is what would would later become the whole company. `[00:10:04]` 回顾一下，我们曾经做过的所有其他项目都有一些元素，但是玩具中的这个玩具就像你知道的，如果有一个工具可以让你在网上收集东西的话。你在电话里有一些这个目录的元素。我是说，当我还是个孩子的时候，有一些我喜欢的东西，我小时候是个大收藏家。埃文也是。我们开始制造这个玩具。具有讽刺意味的是，像这样的玩具后来就会成为整个公司。 > `[00:10:28]` Right. `[00:10:28]` 对。 > `[00:10:29]` So that so then sort of morphed into Pinterest Yeah I mean the thing morphed as a generous word to launched and no one really used it and then and then Pinterest was kind of it was it was getting done. We thought it was really cool. And so we thought Hey let let\'s put this thing out into the world. And that was sort of how this switchover happened. `[00:10:29]` 这样就变成了 Pinterest，是的，我的意思是，这个东西变成了一个慷慨的词来发射，没有人真正使用它，然后 Pinterest 就这样完成了。我们觉得很酷。所以我们想，嘿，让我们把这个东西放到世界上去吧。这就是为什么会发生这种转变。 > `[00:10:48]` So when you reflect back and think about the early days of Pinterest what was the problem that you\'re trying to sort out there who are you trying to. `[00:10:48]` 所以当你回想起 Pinterest 的早期，你想要解决的问题是什么，你想找的是谁。 > `[00:10:57]` Was it something you\'re building at the time for a narrow group of people or for everyone. What was that thing that you were trying to solve. `[00:10:57]` 是你当时在为一群人或每个人建造的东西吗？你想要解决的是什么？ > `[00:11:04]` Well gonna sound like kind of the worst business person. We just thought it would be cool for ourselves at first. You know I am a really curious person Evan. He was an architect at the time you starting in architecture school in Columbia like buildings not computers. And we thought he had this tool took to collect things for yourself that would be really useful and not only that in those collections can kind of give you a window into how other people saw the world. We just thought that would be that would be really a really fun product that people might be interested in. And so I think what initially motivated us that early team was we really enjoyed using the product for ourselves. And when we released it it actually was not a runaway success. It grew really really slowly but part of what kept us going is we thought it was a really cool a really cool product that we enjoyed. We thought well maybe there are people like us who would also enjoy it. `[00:11:04]` 听起来像是最糟糕的商人。我们只是觉得这对我们自己来说是很酷的。你知道我是个很好奇的人埃文。他是一名建筑师，那时你在哥伦比亚的建筑学校开始学习，喜欢建筑，而不是电脑。我们认为他用这个工具为自己收集了一些非常有用的东西，而不仅仅是在这些收藏品中，你可以看到别人是如何看待这个世界的。我们只是认为这将是一个非常有趣的产品，人们可能会感兴趣。所以我认为最初激励我们早期团队的是我们真的很喜欢为自己使用这个产品。而当我们发布的时候，它实际上并不是一个失控的成功。它的增长非常缓慢，但部分原因是，我们认为这是一个非常酷的产品，我们喜欢。我们认为，也许会有像我们这样的人也会喜欢它。 > `[00:11:54]` Yeah. `[00:11:54]` 是的。 > `[00:11:56]` How did you find your first users. How did you know you\'ve talked a little about like trying to market it and being scrappy about that. Can you talk about that. `[00:11:56]` 你是如何找到你的第一批用户的？你怎么知道你已经说了一点，比如试图推销它，并且对此很不爽。你能谈谈这个吗？。 > `[00:12:05]` Yeah so we released it and I did probably what everyone does. The first thing you do is you e-mail all your friends and you kind of hope they can and no one really got it to be totally honest with you. Neither are the people on the East Coast that avenue nor the people on the west coast. They just didn\'t really get it. They were really polite. `[00:12:05]` 是的，所以我们发布了它，我可能做了每个人都做的事情。你做的第一件事就是给你所有的朋友发电子邮件，并希望他们能做到，而且没有人能让他们对你完全诚实。东海岸的人和西海岸的人都不是。他们只是不太明白，他们真的很有礼貌。 > `[00:12:23]` They were like oh looks interesting very interesting. `[00:12:23]` 他们好像哦，看起来很有趣，很有趣。 > `[00:12:29]` But there was a small group of people that were enjoying it and those folks were not who who I think typically you think about early adopters. They were there were folks that I grew up with people that were using it for regular stuff in their life. What was my house can look like. You know what kind of food do I want to eat. Things like that and we really thought you know where those people congregated. Who\'s their community. And I ended up you know going to a conference where a lot of the blogs that people were reading about those things a lot of those bloggers gathered and I met and I met these bloggers and they seem like the kind of people who would really enjoy it. So he organized a marketing event with those bloggers where we had each of them introduced the service to their audience. `[00:12:29]` 但是有一小群人正在享受这种生活，而我认为那些人并不是你通常认为的早期采用者。他们有一些人，我成长的人，在他们的生活中经常使用它的人。我的房子是什么样的。你知道我想吃什么样的食物。我们真的以为你知道那些人聚集在哪里。谁是他们的社区。最后，我去参加一个会议，会上人们读到很多博客-很多博客作者聚集在一起-我遇到了这些博客作者，他们似乎是那种真正喜欢这些博客的人。所以，他和那些博客作者一起组织了一场营销活动，我们让他们每个人都向他们的听众介绍这项服务。 > `[00:13:11]` I mean how many users do you have at this point. `[00:13:11]` 我的意思是现在你有多少用户。 > `[00:13:13]` How small is Pinterest is like few hundred 100 so very early if you ask pretty early on. And that\'s how we got started. But in between I mean we did all kinds of honestly pretty desperate things like I used to walk home and I was in Palo Alto and I\'d walk by the Apple store and I would like stand an Apple store and just like change all the computers to say Pinterest and I\'m like kind of stand in the back like what is Pinterest thing. `[00:13:13]` 如果你很早就问的话，Pinterest 有多小，就像几百百个一样早。我们就是这样开始的。但在这段时间里，我的意思是，我们做了各种各样的非常绝望的事情，比如我过去常常走回家，我在帕洛阿尔托，我会经过苹果商店，我想站在一家苹果商店，就像改变所有的电脑，说 Pinterest，我就像站在后面，就像 Pinterest 的东西一样。 > `[00:13:41]` Blowing But you know slowly we started we started to get folks who really love this service. `[00:13:41]` 但你知道，慢慢地，我们开始吸引真正喜欢这项服务的人。 > `[00:13:54]` And then since it took us so long to get those users we cared about them so much. I used to have my cell phone on all the customer support e-mails I would take customer support calls all the time. So when the service would go down I had this problem where everyone would start calling me be like hey can\'t get my pins. And I don\'t know I think that for me there were these two lessons and in one it\'s that you know there\'s a stereotype of where early adopters come from and they should be these technology forward folks and I just think that that idea is really outdated now. I think that so many people have these amazing computers in their pocket. So many people are of it that early adopters are coming from everywhere and it could be taxi cab drivers in India more Midwestern folks were planning their home. And I think if we been really dogmatic about wanting kind of cool Silicon Valley people to like it we probably wouldn\'t have made the service that we made. I mean I think there was a lesson in really taking care of users. And so all the time. You know I would sit in coffee shops and ask people to try this service and just try to wash them and see what they were doing to see where we could smooth out the edges and improve the service. `[00:13:54]` 由于我们花了这么长时间才得到那些用户，我们非常关心他们。我以前在所有的客户支持电子邮件上都有我的手机，我会一直接客户支持电话。所以当服务停止的时候，我遇到了这个问题，每个人都会开始打电话给我，就像嘿不能得到我的引脚一样。我不知道，我认为对我来说有两个教训，在其中一个，你知道，有一种关于早期采用者来自哪里的刻板印象，他们应该是那些技术进步的人，我只是认为这个想法现在已经过时了。我认为很多人的口袋里都有这些神奇的电脑。很多人都是这样的，所以早期的采用者来自世界各地，而且可能是印度的出租车司机，更多的中西部人在计划他们的家。我认为，如果我们真的教条主义地想让硅谷的人喜欢它，我们可能就不会像我们所做的那样提供这样的服务了。我的意思是，我认为真正照顾用户是一个教训。所以一直都是这样。你知道，我会坐在咖啡店里，让人们尝试一下这个服务，试着洗一下，看看他们在做什么，看看我们能在哪里理顺边缘，改善服务。 > `[00:15:02]` And what did you do would you ask for user ideas on user feedback and would that inform what you were building. Or was it more the case that you would observe and continue to build something that felt good for you. `[00:15:02]` 你做了什么？你会问用户对用户反馈的想法吗？这能告诉你正在构建什么吗？或者更多的情况是，你会观察并继续建立一些对你有好处的东西。 > `[00:15:14]` It was a little bit of both. `[00:15:14]` 两者都有一点。 > `[00:15:16]` You know one one thing is that what people say they want in what people mean can sometimes be different. So really common thing that I would ask people sitting in a coffee shop I\'d be like hey you know what. Why don\'t you try to create a board or try to find something. And then I would ask them to do it or I\'d ask them to look at it button push it. And right before I\'d say you know what do you expect to see on the other side of that. And then right after I like is that what you saw. And if it was different I\'d be like they should we should fix that up. And so I do think that listening to the people that use the service is incredibly important. But you have to use judgment to decide what parts of the product you really want to invest in. `[00:15:16]` 你知道的一件事是，人们说他们想要什么，人们的意思有时是不同的。非常普通的事情，我会问坐在咖啡店里的人，我会像嘿，你知道吗。你为什么不试着创建一个板或者找一些东西。然后我会让他们去做，或者让他们看一下，按下按钮。就在我说你知道你希望在另一边看到什么之前。就在我喜欢之后你看到的就是这个。如果不一样的话，我会觉得他们应该解决这个问题。所以我认为倾听使用这项服务的人是非常重要的。但是你必须用判断来决定你真正想投资的产品的哪些部分。 > `[00:15:55]` And you still do that today. I mean Pinterest now has millions and millions of users. How do you still carry that forward in terms of caring for users and you personally kind of observing or getting feedback from them. `[00:15:55]` 你今天仍然这么做。我的意思是 Pinterest 现在有数以百万计的用户。在关心用户方面，你是如何做到这一点的，你个人如何观察或者从他们那里得到反馈呢？ > `[00:16:06]` Yeah I mean when when we started growing and we realized there are users that we couldn\'t fully understand the first person perspective because maybe they were in a different country or they were on a different infrastructure. We started to build out a research team and today we have researchers that go around the world and bring people into the office to do that kind of work. We obviously look at data as one tool. We ran experiments as one tool but after you have all that there are still these pieces where you have to use your judgment you take all these signals and you put something out and sometimes it works. It doesn\'t. And you have to go figure that out. `[00:16:06]` 是的，我是说，当我们开始成长的时候，我们意识到有些用户我们不能完全理解第一个人的观点，因为他们可能在一个不同的国家，或者他们在一个不同的基础设施上。我们开始建立一个研究团队，今天，我们有了一些研究人员，他们走遍世界各地，把人们带到办公室去做类似的工作。显然，我们把数据看作一个工具。我们作为一个工具进行了实验，但是在你拥有了所有这些东西之后，你仍然需要用你的判断，你拿出所有这些信号，你发出一些信号，有时它会起作用。不是的。你得去想办法。 > `[00:16:40]` Right. So from those early days how long did it take. `[00:16:40]` 对。从早期开始，花了多长时间。 > `[00:16:44]` Before you thought you were onto something that could be really really big that you\'d build something that could be used for lots and lots of people. `[00:16:44]` 在你认为你在做一件可能很大的事情之前，你会建造一件可以为很多人使用的东西。 > `[00:16:53]` You know what\'s funny is like I don\'t think there is this one moment like we were growing every month. And I think it wasn\'t until we went out to go raise some more money. So you felt like things were going well. We want to use money as a tool to grow the business that we are first forced to say you know how big do we think this can be. And I remember feeling kind of this dual feeling. One is like my nature isn\'t to be like this thing is going to be really. But I\'m talking to an investor who became a mentor of mine so you know why not. Now why couldn\'t it be if you thought about it that way how would it change. And that\'s how we think about it today. You know today when I talk to the company I say you know we want to build the world\'s catalog of ideas. The tool that everyone uses to discover things in their everyday life. And in a weird way sort of raising the bar on on what the company can\'t be ends up attracting people who are more ambitious and are more creative in solving big problems. `[00:16:53]` 你知道有趣的是，我不认为有这样的时刻，就像我们每个月都在成长。我认为这不是\直到我们出去筹集更多的钱。所以你觉得一切都很顺利。我们想用金钱作为一种工具来发展我们首先不得不说的业务，你知道我们认为这会有多大。我记得这种双重感觉。一个是我的本性，不是这样的，这东西会是真的。但我正在和一位成为我导师的投资者交谈，所以你知道为什么不可以。如果你这么想的话，它会怎么改变呢？我们今天就是这么想的。你知道，今天当我和公司谈话时，我说你知道我们想建立世界上的想法目录。每个人在日常生活中发现事物的工具。以一种奇怪的方式，在某种程度上提高了公司不可能吸引更有雄心、更有创造力的人来解决大问题的标准。 > `[00:17:50]` So between the time of kind of launching pentru as you\'re working on two you decided that\'s not getting much traction let\'s launch Pinterest something it feels great to us. Did you. Between that time of sort of launching Pinterest and growing it as you mentioned and getting to your series. Did you have multiple smaller kind of fundraisings or how did you finance the company. `[00:17:50]` 所以，当你开始做两件事的时候，你就觉得 Pinterest 没有多大的吸引力，让我们开始关注 Pinterest 吧。你觉得很棒吗？就像你提到的那样，在这段时间里，你开始了 Pinterest，然后开始了你的系列节目。你有多个规模较小的募捐活动，或者你是如何为公司融资的。 > `[00:18:12]` We did a little bit more money from some other angel investors but we also were not spending very much money. So the team is incredibly small. How small I think it was like five five six people OK. Who was bringing your own computer. It was in the two bedroom apartment where one of the rooms is rented to a guy who didn\'t work at the company. And I think that\'s because we\'d been without money for so long it just didn\'t really know. We didn\'t really know how long it would take. So everything was kind of through that lens of like how do we make sure that we just have what we can to keep going for us. I don\'t think fundraising has ever been like a goal. It\'s just this tool that you use to get to the next step and actually I think a problem that\'s happened sometimes recently is people confuse money the tool with the goal of the company. The goal is not to raise a bunch of money. The goal is to get the resources you need whether there are talented people or whether they\'re users or whether they\'re a piece of technology. To then achieve and build the product and service that you want. `[00:18:12]` 我们从其他天使投资者那里多赚了一点钱，但我们也没有花很多钱。所以这个团队太小了。有多小，我想大概有五个人，六个人，好吧。他带了你自己的电脑。那是在一间两居室的公寓里，其中一间房是租给一个没有在公司工作的人的。我想那是因为我们很久没有钱了，只是不知道。我们不知道要花多长时间。所以，所有的一切都是通过这样的镜头，我们如何确保我们有了我们能坚持下去的东西。我不认为筹款是一个目标。这只是一个工具，你用它进入下一步，实际上，我认为最近发生的一个问题是人们把金钱、工具和公司的目标混为一谈。目的不是筹集一大笔钱。我们的目标是获得你所需要的资源，不管是有才华的人，还是他们是用户，还是他们是一项技术。然后实现并构建您想要的产品和服务。 > `[00:19:12]` So let\'s talk about attracting people. One of the things that you\'ve said you\'ve been quoted as saying is that when you\'re trying to attract people to your startup great people to your startup people are attracted. They don\'t want a guarantee of success necessarily. They want a guarantee of an adventure and that was a sort of approach you took in recruiting people in. Can you talk about that. `[00:19:12]` 那么，让我们谈谈吸引人的问题吧。你说过的一件事是，当你试图吸引人加入你的创业公司时，优秀的人会被吸引到你的创业公司。他们不一定想要成功的保证。他们想要一次冒险的保证，这是你在招聘员工时采取的一种方式。你能谈谈这个问题吗？ > `[00:19:35]` Yeah you know really early on like I didn\'t have like a network of engineers in Silicon Valley right. So we did all kinds of things similar to marketing. You know the first engineer one of the first ones we hired I put an ad on Craigslist. He replied. And then as we started to get a little bit of momentum we would try to just use the assets we had and what we had with this shitty apartment on California Avenue with a patio. And we\'re like our asset is going to be this apartment because people see it deafeningly and know that we haven\'t made it yet. But if we throw barbecues there they\'re going to know we\'re we\'re cool people. So we would throw these barbecues every Friday. It was like Bring your own food. `[00:19:35]` 是的，你很早就知道，就像我在硅谷没有一个工程师网络一样，对吧。所以我们做了各种类似于市场营销的事情。你知道，第一个工程师，我们雇佣的第一个工程师之一，我在 Craigslist 上登了一则广告。他回答说。然后，当我们开始获得一点动力时，我们会试着利用我们拥有的资产，以及我们在加利福尼亚大道上有一个露台的破烂公寓所拥有的东西。我们就像我们的资产将成为这套公寓，因为人们看到它震耳欲聋，并且知道我们还没有成功。但是如果我们在那里举办烧烤，他们就会知道我们是很酷的人。所以我们每个星期五都会举办烧烤会。就像自己带食物一样。 > `[00:20:15]` And then we would bring beer and actually we recruited a lot of people there and I think that the people that we loved are recruiting kind of intuitively you kind of recruit people that are a little bit like yourself when you get bigger you want to recruit people that are very different from yourself. But I loved I love people that at their core they were they were builders they wanted to be known for what they built not what they said. They tended to be curious about a ton of different things but then deep in something. And so now our first engineers you know one of the guys in his first senior game like what have you built. And he he pulled out his phone. He built like magic tricks for his kids. He built these crazy games. He was building these crazy robots in his garage. One of our next really engineers he was actually a cartoonist. That that stopped cartooning he became an engineer and that kind of became the calling card of a lot of our early folks. I\'m people that we\'re almost outsiders to technology. And I think that\'s served us really well as a company. `[00:20:15]` 然后我们会带来啤酒，实际上我们在那里招募了很多人，我认为我们所爱的人在招聘的时候，直觉地说，你会招募一些和你自己有点相似的人，当你变大的时候，你想招募和你很不一样的人。但我爱的人，在他们的核心，他们是建设者，他们想被人知道他们所建的，而不是他们所说的。他们往往对一大堆不同的东西感到好奇，但后来又深深地陷入了某种东西之中。所以现在我们的第一批工程师，你认识的其中一个人，在他的第一场高级比赛中，比如你做了什么。然后他拿出了他的手机。他为他的孩子们做的就像魔术一样。他制造了这些疯狂的游戏。他在车库里建造这些疯狂的机器人。我们下一个真正的工程师之一，他实际上是个漫画家。这停止了漫画，他成为了一名工程师，这也成为了我们早期许多人的名片。我是那种认为我们几乎是技术外来者的人。我认为，作为一家公司，我们做得很好。 > `[00:21:18]` I think today with Pinterest. You know you have millions and millions of users. Are you still trying to solve the same problem today as you\'re originally trying to solve. How is your conception of Pinterest as a product changed. `[00:21:18]` 我想今天和 Pinterest 在一起。你知道你有数以百万计的用户。你现在还在试图解决和你最初想要解决的问题一样的问题吗？你对 Pinterest 作为一种产品的概念是如何改变的？ > `[00:21:33]` No I think a lot of the problem is stay the same. But the scope of the ambition has changed. I always think like if I could go back in time and say like oh you know Ben 2008 you know he had a million users who\'d be happy I\'d be like really overjoyed. But for me there\'s always this widening gap between where you are and in the world of the ambition you know today when I think about Pinterest I mentioned that I have this idea of wanting to build the catalog of ideas. And that to me means like what if there was a tool where everyone publish ideas that you could use into one place. What if it was so personalized that understood your preferences and every time you used it it became more customized to you. And what if when you saw those ideas they had all the information you needed to make it happen. If it\'s a product you could buy it. If it\'s a recipe you could cook it. And I think there\'s something very very beautiful about that because because today there are a lot of services that try to give you objective answers to everything. You know if you ask google a question it\'ll return like a factually right answer very quickly. But there aren\'t as many tools that are fully devoted to helping you discover what\'s right for yourself. And in fact I think that a lot of technology is pushing people to project an image of who other people want them to be rather than giving them a space just to think about who am I. I mean I\'d love Pinterest to play a small role in doing that. I\'m for small things you know like like making dinner or maybe for big things like like designing your home or doing a big creative project and that\'s kind of my dream. But then how we\'re doing it. I couldn\'t have imagined one of the great perks of starting a company is that you get to hire people that are way better than you and all these other areas. And so we have computer vision folks. Now we have we have great engineers we have wonderful designers we have writers. I think that\'s one of the fun things about trying to assemble a team against a North Star goal. `[00:21:33]` 不，我认为很多问题是保持不变。但是野心的范围已经改变了。我总是想，如果我能回到过去，说，哦，你知道，本，2008，你知道，他有一百万用户，他们会很高兴，我会非常高兴。但对我来说，你所处的位置和你今天所知道的野心世界之间的差距不断扩大，当我想到 Pinterest 时，我提到了我想要建立一个想法目录的想法。对我来说，这意味着，如果有一个工具，每个人都可以在一个地方发表你的想法，那该怎么办呢？如果它是如此个性化，能够理解您的喜好，并且每次您使用它时，它都会变得更适合您。如果当你看到这些想法时，他们掌握了你所需要的所有信息来实现它。如果它是一种产品，你可以买它。如果这是一个食谱，你可以做它。我认为这其中有一些非常美妙的地方，因为今天有很多服务试图给你客观的答案。你知道，如果你问谷歌一个问题，它就会像一个事实正确的答案一样快速返回。但是没有那么多的工具能帮助你发现什么是适合你自己的。事实上，我认为很多技术都在推动人们塑造一个别人想让他们成为什么样的人的形象，而不是给他们一个空间来思考自己是谁。我的意思是，我希望 Pinterest 能在这个过程中扮演一个小角色。我是为了一些你知道的小事，比如做晚饭，或者是做一些大事，比如设计你的家或者做一个有创意的大型项目，这是我的梦想。但是我们是怎么做的呢。我无法想象创建一家公司最大的好处之一就是你可以雇佣比你和其他所有领域都好得多的人。所以我们有电脑视觉的人。现在我们有了伟大的工程师，有了优秀的设计师，我们有了作家。我认为这是一个有趣的事情，试图组成一支球队对抗一个北极星的目标。 > `[00:23:22]` Now that you\'ve built this really meaningful product that millions tens of millions of people or hundreds of millions of people use you reflect back what was your moment of greatest discouragement. `[00:23:22]` 现在你已经建立了这个真正有意义的产品，数百万人或数亿人在使用它，你会回想起你最沮丧的时刻。 > `[00:23:32]` What was your sort of lowest point in the history of Pinterest. How did you get through it so many like I think everyone has real moments of self-doubt. `[00:23:32]` 你的兴趣史上的最低点是什么？你是怎么熬过去的，就像我想每个人都有真正的自我怀疑的时刻。 > `[00:23:46]` You know I can think of a whole bunch of times where there were things that were going on outside like we didn\'t think we could scale the service. I actually remember a day we had three engineers and we had to Shahd the database. `[00:23:46]` 你知道，我能想到很多次，在外面发生的事情，就像我们认为我们无法扩大服务一样。我记得有一天，我们有三名工程师，我们不得不建立数据库。 > `[00:23:59]` And I was like What is this thing going to work. And they\'re like well we have to do it and I\'m like what could go wrong. Well we could lose everyone\'s user data forever. So that sounds really bad. It\'s not that bad because we\'re guaranteed to lose it if we don\'t do something like I. It\'s not not the most inspiring thing. I mean there are there all these moments but I think you just kind of keep going. And in one of the one of the real privileges that I\'ve had in Silicon Valleys I\'ve gotten to meet a lot of these entrepreneurs who are honestly my idols like people that I read about like they were fictional characters like Robinson Crusoe or something and finding out that actually they got where they got by making a series of mistakes and then learning from them and moving forward. That was a really long lesson for me to learn. You know as I said you my parents are doctors like you know Facebook is famous for having these signs. Move fast and break things like when you go to the doctor\'s office. Like when you go into the car you don\'t want to sign fast enough. `[00:23:59]` 我就像这东西会起什么作用。他们就像，我们必须这样做，而我就像可能出错的东西。我们可能永远失去每个人的用户数据。听起来很糟糕。没有那么糟糕，因为如果我们不做这样的事情，我们肯定会失去它。这不是最鼓舞人心的事情。我的意思是，有很多这样的时刻，但我认为你只是继续前进。在硅谷，我有一种真正的特权，我遇到了很多企业家，他们都是我的偶像，就像我读到的那些人，就像罗宾逊·克鲁索之类的虚构人物，然后发现他们犯了一系列错误，然后向他们学习，然后继续前进。对我来说，这是一堂很长的课。你知道，就像我说的，我的父母是医生，就像你知道，Facebook 因为有这些征兆而出名。动作要快些，像去医生办公室时那样。就像当你上车的时候，你不想签得足够快。 > `[00:24:59]` So that mentality took me a long time and part of I think my job as the leader of the company is to make sure everyone in the company feels like they can take risks and learn from them and that process of learning is more important than avoiding errors at any given point. `[00:24:59]` 所以这种心态花了我很长时间，我认为作为公司的领导者，我的部分职责是确保公司里的每个人都觉得自己可以冒险，并从中吸取教训，而学习的过程比在任何特定的时刻避免错误更重要。 > `[00:25:15]` I want to ask you about mentors and mentorship. Are there mentors that you have relied on. They made a difference. How did you find them and how important is that even it\'s been really important actually know I\'ve had different folks at different times. `[00:25:15]` 我想问你关于导师和导师的事。有没有你所依赖的导师。他们起了很大的作用。你是如何找到它们的，即使是真的很重要，你也知道我在不同的时间有不同的人。 > `[00:25:34]` I mention there was an early investor there\'s a guy named Kevin Hart who founded the company Eventbrite. He was one of the first people that was really successful in Silicon Valley and it really took time to talk to me about things. I think there are other ventures that offer you support. Sometimes I cringe a little bit at sort of the life and death language used to describe startups because I think the biggest risk of a startup is is actually the founders becoming so discouraged they burned out. But if you go into it saying like survive or die like tying your personal like self self-worth to that how come of this company I think that only increases the peril of that happening. So I\'ve met friends. I mean they\'re not inventors are just people that are like hey things aren\'t going so bad like life keeps moving on. You know and now I\'ve said people many people who have seen companies that are bigger than the ones that we\'re building to ask them hey what should I look out for here. Just to maybe see around some corners. So all different forms so you\'ve been active about trying to develop develop that. Yeah I mean I think say that I\'m not under any illusion that I know how to run a company of this size like I\'ve never done it before. Not that many people have and so one of my one of my core jobs is to learn as fast as I can in starting companies. Just like anything else you learn by trying and failing and you learn by talking to people that might have succeeded before you. `[00:25:34]` 我提到有个早期的投资者，有一个叫凯文·哈特的人，他创立了 Eventbrite 公司。他是硅谷第一批真正成功的人之一，和我谈论事情真的需要时间。我认为还有其他的风险为你提供支持。有时，我对用来描述初创企业的生死攸关的语言感到有些畏缩，因为我认为创业的最大风险实际上是创始人变得如此气馁，他们精疲力竭。但是如果你想生存或者死亡，就像把你个人的自我价值和自我价值联系在一起，我认为这只会增加发生这种事情的危险。所以我见过朋友。我的意思是，他们不是发明家，他们只是一个人，他们的生活不会像过去那样糟糕。你知道，现在我曾说过，很多人见过比我们正在建立的公司更大的公司，问他们嘿，我在这里应该注意什么。只是想看看周围的角落。所以所有不同的形式，所以你一直在积极地尝试开发它。是的，我的意思是，我想说，我没有任何幻想，我知道如何经营这样规模的公司，因为我从来没有这样做过。不是很多人都有，所以我的核心工作之一就是在创业中尽可能快地学习。就像你从尝试和失败中学到的任何东西一样，你也是通过与可能在你之前成功的人交谈来学习的。 > `[00:26:53]` How has your job changed your day to day activities change from five person company that built the first version of Pinterest to a company with several hundred people a year run into the while there were some parts that are the same and some of them are different. `[00:26:53]` 你的工作是如何改变你的日常活动的，从建立 Pinterest 第一版的五人公司变成了一家每年有几百人参与的公司，而有些部分是相同的，有些是不同的。 > `[00:27:08]` I mean I think that the founders always responsible for driving clarity on what you\'re building and why. And for talking about what is the standard culturally and objectively that people you want to bring in a company. I don\'t think that ever changes. I think what changes is that more and more your job becomes creating an organization and finding people that can build that and that will do it better than yours and also making sure that those people feel like they are part of that mission. They\'re not like building it for somebody else. And in really practical ways that means like I have to communicate a lot more. It means that I had to start to learn how to manage people and I say start and like that\'s I\'d never manage anyone before. As anyone who had managed can attest in those parts those parts have changed changed quite a bit. I know talking to lots of people that\'s changed when we were really small when we would get press inquiries. I was a pretty introverted person so I just wouldn\'t reply I\'d be like we\'re busy. `[00:27:08]` 我的意思是，我认为创始人总是有责任让你弄清楚你在建造什么和为什么。从文化上和客观上讲什么是你想引进公司的人的标准。我不认为这种情况会改变。我想改变的是，越来越多的你的工作变成了创建一个组织，找到能够建立这样的组织的人，这将比你的工作做得更好，并确保这些人感觉自己是这一使命的一部分。他们不喜欢为别人建房子。实际上，这意味着我需要更多的交流。这意味着我必须开始学习如何管理人，我说“开始”，就像这样，我以前从来没有管理过任何人。任何人谁都可以证明，在这些部分已经发生了很大的变化。我知道和很多人交谈，当我们很小的时候，当我们得到新闻咨询的时候，这些人就变了。我是一个很内向的人，所以我不会回答，我会觉得我们很忙。 > `[00:28:10]` That was my strategy. It\'s like a new york times would come in and I\'d be like I\'m really busy right now. And that\'s not a good strategy. `[00:28:10]` 那是我的策略。就像“纽约时报”来了，我会觉得我现在真的很忙。这不是一个好的策略。 > `[00:28:23]` Do you how deeply are you involved in the product today and the design decisions or is that now that you\'ve hired so many great people. Are you a step removed from that. `[00:28:23]` 你有多深地参与了今天的产品和设计决策，还是现在你已经雇用了那么多优秀的人，你是否已经从这一点上走了一步？ > `[00:28:37]` So I\'m still involved in products. But you know my job isn\'t to literally pixel like pixel credit critic. You know the service it\'s hopefully to ask the right questions and get the teams to come up with better ideas. That\'s actually I think a hard transition for a lot of founders to make. But I think it\'s a really important one. At some point you have to not let go the product but have faith that the people you\'ve hired that are closer to the problem. I mean that you\'ve hired because they have great judgment because they\'re talented they\'re going to execute better. But your job is to sort of unify that into a singular product vision of it. `[00:28:37]` 所以我还在从事产品。但你知道我的工作不是像素信用评论家那样的像素。你知道这个服务，希望能提出正确的问题，让团队想出更好的想法。事实上，我认为对于许多创始人来说，这是一个艰难的转变。但我觉得这很重要。在某种程度上，你不能放弃产品，而要相信你雇佣的人更接近问题。我的意思是，你之所以录用是因为他们有很好的判断力，因为他们很有天赋，他们会执行得更好。但你的工作是把它统一成一个独特的产品愿景。 > `[00:29:13]` One last question for you. It\'s a it\'s a squishy one. I wanted to ask you about culture at a company an organization and for you at Pinterest you know what. What is do you think actively about the culture of the company. What values is it based on and and how do you build that. How do you build it from being this tiny thing to this company now that I\'m sure you have employees who you don\'t know you don\'t know their names like what what what\'s the glue that binds. `[00:29:13]` 最后一个问题。这是一只它是一只毛茸茸的。我想问你在一家公司，一个组织的文化，对你来说，在 Pinterest，你知道吗。你对公司的文化有什么积极的看法？它所基于的价值观是什么，你是如何构建它的。既然我确信你的员工不知道他们的名字，比如粘合的胶水是什么，那么你是如何从这个小东西到这家公司的呢？ > `[00:29:44]` Well it is you know it\'s kind of it\'s a squishy topic when when you\'re small you don\'t have to write down your culture it just sort of takes care of itself. `[00:29:44]` 嗯，你知道这是个很棘手的话题，当你很小的时候，你不需要写下你的文化，它只是在照顾自己。 > `[00:29:51]` I mean you were saying you hire people who love to build things and you know that through your recruiter you kind of have a certain dilemma. `[00:29:51]` 我的意思是，你是说你雇佣的人都喜欢建造东西，而且你知道，通过你的招聘人员，你会有某种进退两难的境地。 > `[00:29:57]` That\'s right. Some parts of our culture are similar to others. Like I want people to be obsessed with the users that we build for the people that use our service. And so we have values around that. And we try to reduce every decision you like. What\'s what\'s really best for pinners. I would say the unique thing for us. The thing that might be different is I\'m really I\'m a really firm believer that for Pinterest the more diverse the skills that we have in the building the more diverse the backgrounds of the people that we hire the better the product will be. You know I think that you\'re kind of a sum of all your experiences and so when we build products I value engineering and we value design and we value writing and we value marketing very very deeply. We hire people that are multitalented and I\'m very interested in hiring people who don\'t share the same backgrounds to kind of fight the natural inertia that I described before you hire people like yourselves. I\'m very interested in hiring women. I\'m very interested in hiring underrepresented minorities. I\'m very interested in hiring people from outside the United States that bring different perspectives. Now because it\'s like a nice thing to do but because I genuinely believe that we will build better products if you can knit all of those ideas together into something unified. And so that\'s that\'s one thing that we value when we try to live and we try to push very very hard amongst our teams wonderful who we are. `[00:29:57]` 那是对的。我们文化的某些部分与其他文化相似。就像我希望人们痴迷于我们为使用我们服务的人而建立的用户。所以我们对此有价值。我们试着减少你喜欢的每一个决定。什么才是最适合小人物的？我要说的是我们的独特之处。可能不同的是，我真的非常坚信，对于 Pinterest 来说，我们在建筑中拥有的技能越多样化，我们雇佣的人的背景就越多样化，产品就会越好。你知道，我认为你是你所有经验的总和，所以当我们建造产品时，我重视工程，我们重视设计，我们重视写作，我们非常重视营销。我们雇佣的是多才多艺的人，我非常有兴趣雇佣那些不具有相同背景的人来对抗我在雇佣像你们这样的人之前所描述的自然惰性。我对雇用妇女很感兴趣。我对雇用代表不足的少数民族很感兴趣。我非常有兴趣从美国以外的地方招聘具有不同观点的人。因为这是一件很好的事情，但我真的相信，如果你能把所有这些想法编织成一个统一的东西，我们就会生产出更好的产品。所以，当我们尝试生活的时候，这是我们所珍视的一件事，我们试图在我们的团队中非常努力地推动我们是怎样的人。 > `[00:31:17]` I think I speak for everyone we\'re so excited to see where you continue to take control. Thank you so much for joining us today. `[00:31:17]` 我想我代表每个人，我们很高兴看到你们继续控制着我们。非常感谢你们今天加入我们。 > `[00:31:22]` Thanks Reynolds. `[00:31:22]` 谢谢雷诺兹。